• http://www.brickmarketing.com/ Nick Stamoulis

    It can be disheartening after a while, when you know that you do great, white hat SEO work but it’s always tainted by the activities of black hatters and spammers. Sometimes it feels like part of my job as an SEO professional is convincing leads that I’m not out to ruin their website! Unfortunately very few site owners share stories about their great SEO experiences, only the bad ones.

  • webprotech

    Thanks for this post. It is the right time now that the industry just got rid of all this scam especially when Google is working so hard at improving the quality of search results and as a result aiming for a better WWW.

    I can relate more to the second last para titled “Lessons From SEO” where you write:

    I’ve largely given up trying to correct mainstream misconceptions about SEO these days. I don’t have the energy. It sad that SEOs who do the best practice things that even Google advises have to take the heat for every crappy blog spammer out there who bought some program and wants to claim that they’re an SEO too. 

    Had shared  the same thoughts last year when I wrote this post on SEOmoz 

    http://www.seomoz.org/ugc/the-question-about-the-reputation-of-the-seo-industry-12060 

     

  • http://searchengineland.com/ Danny Sullivan

    I looked up that program just now. The pitch for that doesn’t seem to be that you’ll make money out of the blue but that increase visibility for an existing business. That’s one of the warning signs I was talking about. If someone doesn’t have an existing business, and they hit some program suggesting they don’t really need one, that’s a concern.

  • http://ciarannorris.co.uk Ciaran

    Danny – I thought you were in the right in the first instance, and still do.

    Are there scams out there? Undoubtedly. Have there always been similar scams? As you said, yes. Anyone had a Nigerian email recently.

    As for this:

    If legit people on the internet banded together and tried to do something, try to help stop all these old ladies from getting screwed, it would make a huge differnce, probably even a bigger difference than the government getting involved. 

    I think I’ll wait for the banks who knowingly let Madoff get away with decimating pension funds, or the journalists who invaded privacy on an industrial scale to get their acts together before believeing that I have any skin in the particular game. 

    As it happens, whenever I see something that a friend or family member sends me that looks like either a scam, a virus or a hoax, I tend to direct them to snopes. The Verge could have done something similar, but that wouldn’t have taken up thousands of words and made them feel like Woodward & Bernstein.

  • http://searchengineland.com/ Danny Sullivan

    It’s not that I was wrong that The Verge equated all of Internet Marketing as being the same as these schemes and scams. They did do that, and I disagreed with it — something they eventually fixed.

    But the more important point was that I focused on that rather than spreading the news that there’s this other type of “Internet Marketing” out there that people should be wary of. 

    Like I said, this was a use of the term that just had never registered with me before, and I’m pretty sure a lot of other traditional internet marketers were surprised to discover it. But rather than inform them of it, my tact was to go after The Verge for a mistake over definitions.

    I think it’s also easy to dismiss this type of stuff as common sense, like I said — and then in turn dismiss The Verge article as somehow just stating what should be the obvious to many people. But to get the government to act, this type of stuff has to move up. People like the FTC might ignore The Salty Droid blog, still might ignore The Verge, but eventually someone like the New York Times or The Wall Street Journal gets inspired to take a look, and then maybe something happens.

  • http://www.stanleyoppenheimer.com searchengineman

    It’s so sad, these vultures feed on the desperation of everyone (Especially the Elderly).  They lie to your face, and actually believe there own filth (Psychotic).  In Canada there is very little going on to prosecute white collar crimes, and an unwillingness to go after them, due to financial and legal hurdles, which make it impossible to get your money back, if you’ve been had.  

    http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2010-2011/gettingoffeasy/ 

    “….
    as I have contacted all authorities including the securities commissions and the RCMP. The RCMP even admitted that there has been worongdoing , but they have a limited budget for securities crimes investigations and can only afford to go after the slam dunk cases..ie the stupid fraudsters.. the really good ones slither away scot free. It only leaves vigilante justice as the final solution. ”

    Frankly the only justice in my opinion is to break a few arms and legs–If you can find them!.  I have ceased to believe that the justice system, is willing or even capable of stopping these monsters…

    Searchengineman

  • http://twitter.com/SFBaySEO Ross Taylor

    I renamed my business from having “SEO” in the name to “Internet Marketing” because I felt that the term SEO itself was turning potential customers off. This came after reading countless times in Linked In forums that people in my industry were “snake oil” salesmen. So, I thought, Internet Marketing is what I do, and seems to sound less shady, so let’s use that!

    I intend to wear the name as a badge of honor and do what I do with scruples and ethics and hope that the public notion changes.

    Loved the Verge essay, and was glued to The Salty Droid for hours the first night I discovered it, and I’m glad the author did attempt to mention that that term Internet Marketing has been co-opted by these charlatans.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matthew-Tomkins/1654033978 Matthew Tomkins

    What about the field of “search education” ?  The money and careers in search has prompted many new programs (university and other) that claim to offer a search component.  Any thoughts on what us students should be looking at?  If you have a legit direction for us to focus- kindly post or reply to comment. Thanks-  Matthew

  • http://ciarannorris.co.uk Ciaran

    But surely, if this is illegal, then the laws already exist?

    What really gets to me are statements like the one The Verge made suggesting that it is somehow the job of anyone who considers themselves to be an internet marketer to clear this mess up. As I said, I’ll do that as soon as The Verge start taking responsibility for journalists using unscrupulous tactics to get stories.

    It’s the same sort of crap that people use when they blame Muslims for not actively shouting about every act of terrorism by people who purport to share the same belief system in the same way that I don’t actively harass any American I meet because of who the President might be/might have been.

  • http://searchengineland.com/ Danny Sullivan

    I don’t really know what you mean about search education. If you mean education about search marketing, well, you could start by looking through the content on our sister-site, Search Engine Land. 

    The SEO and SEM links at the top list a variety of resources, including a free guide that Google offers. We run boot camp sessions at our SMX conferences, and for our SEL Pro members, there are some online video boot camp guides that might help.None of these are going to promise make you tons of money overnight. That’s the tricky thing in all this. There are all types of courses, online and offline, many of which are legitimate. I think the warning sign you look for are the promise that come with these. If they’re seeming to offer an easy way to earn lots of money, that’s a big red flag to be wary of. So when you ask about things like university courses — that’s not typically the type of language you’ll see attached with them.

  • Michael Woods

    There will always be liars. In any medium or industry. Out and out liars. There will always be thieves. Unfortunately, they always have enough truth to sound convincing.

    However, the people that are falling for this stuff should be raked over the coals as well. Greed and covetousness–on both sides of the “ADD TO CART” button– is what makes this whole racket work.

    With that said, the people that bug me the most are the Jason Jones’ of the world. They act as if they are trying to rid the world of evil, while profiting from the fact that it exists. This man will profit in some way from this, and we all know it. BTW: Who will fact check him? Does he have any hidden motives? What will happen if he spins something to make it more sensational? 

    I guess he’s always got “freedom of speech” to fall back on.

  • http://twitter.com/OysteinLund Oystein Lund

    You’re going to transition away from using Internet Marketing, and leave the word to the scammers out there? Terrible idea, Danny. The scam relies on being confused with legitimate marketing, and if you start calling what you do digital marketing, well so will Filsaime who is currently calling himself an online marketer as well as an Internet Marketer over on http://marketingdotcom.com/ and the rest of the Syndicate will follow suit. Actually, Ryan Deiss is one up on you – he’s already using Digital Marketer for some of his participation in The Syndicate: http://www.digitalmarketer.com/access/live/ 

    So if you transition into using digital marketer, well, Deiss was there before you and all you’ll be doing is lending him *more* credibility.

  • WyrdestGeek

    Thanks for posting this clarification.  Since I’m coming *from* the saltydroid blog where all we do is look at the horribleness of the scammers, it’s heartwarming to see you take a strong stance like this.  It gives you a lot of credibility.

    Most commentators here seem to be not exactly supportive of your notion to call yourself something other than an Internet Marketer.

    I don’t think there are any good solutions to the problem of any specific term.  Even in the case where a specific term has legal protections around it, there are problems.

    Look at the field of doctors of medicine–there’s a law that makes it illegal to claim to have a “Medical Doctorate” (M.D.) degree if you don’t actually have one.  Of course, even this does not stop medical fraud from occurring.   Some M.D.s put their names, and therefore their assumed reputation, behind really scammy crap.  Meanwhile, many who are not M.D.s will just say they’re a doctor, or perhaps they’ll have a very non-medical Ph.D. from a very not reputable school.

    I think all you can really do is maintain and defend your reputation.  Since you wrote the previous article about the Verge *and* this one, I think you’re doing that pretty effectively.  It’s the first time I’ve ever seen someone get The Droid to “stand down.”  :-)

    Good luck.


    Furry cows moo and decompress.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/AE3XVAY5DJER75V3XSWL6AN624 Bob

    Danny: Not so quick! This is where it pays to read Salty Droid.

    “Traffic Geyser” is operated by Mike Koenigs, who hawks plenty of “make big money fast” offers, with names like “Main Street Marketing Machines” and “Instant Customer Revolution.”

    Example (from “instantcustomerrevolution”): “Become a Highly-Paid Small Business Marketing Consultant…How one customer lost his job, moved his entire family, started his online marketing business and closed his first $5,000 client in only FIVE DAYS – with no list!”

    He’s the king of tiny, gray, footnoted fine print: “None of these case studies in any way represent the “average” or “typical” CCM, IC and MSMM member experience.”

    Koenigs even has his own CATEGORY on Salty Droid:

    http://saltydroid.info/category/mike-koenigs/

    And the syndicate mentioned in the Verge article? Koenigs is a member.

  • http://twitter.com/blogworld BlogWorld CEO

    Great post Danny! Thanks for having the courage to take this
    topic head on. It is surprising how few people are. I was already a fan of
    yours but this ticked my admiration up a notch. More on that in a bit. First I
    want to address my one disagreement with your post.

    You said “I’m going to shift away from using “internet
    marketing” as a term.” shortly after explaining how you have spent the
    entirety of your career defending SEO. I can assure you many bloggers,
    podcasters, Web TV producers and other members of our community think SEO is
    snake oil.

    Does that make them right? Of course not. It makes them
    ignorant. That’s exactly why our event in particular exists; TO EDUCATE CONTENT
    CREATORS IN EVERY WAY. That includes creating better content, treating their
    blog, podcast or Web TV content like a business, using good ethical SEO
    practices and yes using good ethical and proven internet marketing techniques.

    That is not evil. That’s smart. Every Fortune 500 company
    does it (with varying skill and success) as well as millions of other
    legitimate businesses around the world.  

    Should Car Sales men call themselves something different
    because so many people think all “automotive sales professionals” are
    scammers? How about insurance salesmen, real estate, stock brokers, bankers,
    attorneys (well attorneys are in a category all their own). But you get the
    point. Where ever money changes hands there will be crooks.

    They are certainly on the radio, newspapers, magazines and
    on television. The internet is no different. So I hope you will reconsider your
    stance on ceding the term Internet Marketing.

    This is where the courage part comes in Danny. We have been
    talking about this internally for months and even considered inviting Salty to speak at
    the show. The idea was to have him debate someone or a couple of people who
    would call themselves internet marketers. According to Salty everyone who could
    possibly be considered an internet marketer is by definition a scammer.

    He is not alone in his opinion. This debate over what is and
    what is not legitimate and or ethical goes on at our show between speakers as
    well as attendees every year. Our event certainly isn’t alone. I know similar
    conversations happen at SXSW, Affiliate Summit, certainly at SMX and other SEO
    events.

    Up until now at our event at least this debate has occurred in
    in the aisles, corridors and private meetings not in the formal conference. When
    I proposed this idea earlier this year, we had a heated internal debate. We
    asked several members of our community who were vehemently against it. Many content creators do not want to have this conversation out of fear of being labeled a scammer when they clearly are not. We also
    learned quite a bit more about Salty. I am sure you will agree and can appreciate
    that he engages in a form of SEO blackmail; using keywords to lump legitimate
    business people with scammers. That certainly isn’t the kind of person we want
    speaking at our event.

    These kind of tactics and these labels make people afraid to
    accept and publicly admit what they are and what they do. You just said as much
    in your post. You want to avoid being lumped in with this negative perception.
    Hilariously one of your commenters Ross said he took SEO out of his business
    name and changed it to “internet marketing” for exactly the same reason. 

    We think this debate about what is legitimate and what isn’t
    needs to happen in the open. Like you I thought The Verge piece was fascinating
    but seriously flawed. We just sent them an invitation to attend our upcoming NY
    event and report back if they think our attendees, and speakers are scammers or
    legitimate business people.

    It is time for every legitimate internet marketer to stand
    up and defend their practice and start educating the world about what it really
    means. They need to fight the same valiant fight you and many others fought to
    convince millions of business people that SEO is not only legitimate but
    critical to anyone doing business today. There are still people who think all
    SEO is a scam. They are ignorant. They are also at a distinct competitive
    disadvantage. As the internet becomes more and more dominate in our daily lives
    and in every transaction we make people who think that way will all come around
    or they will go out of business.

    Internet marketing is no different than SEO.

    There are certainly scammers in the internet marketing space.
    Lots of them! (Sounds a lot like black hat SEO to me) They all need to be
    exposed and punished accordingly but trying to find some new politically
    correct term for the exact same practice? That’s ridiculous.

    This is not our fight. Internet marketing is only a small part of our educational program but I
    thought it was important for us to weigh in on this. In fact we will be hosting
    a special #BWEChat live at the show in New York called “is all internet
    marketing a scam”.

    Lastly I think it’s important to say I used to think
    internet marketing was a dirty word too and that all internet marketers were
    scammers. In fact we used to turn down any speaker who described themselves as
    an internet marketer. Until one day a good friend told me “you guys are
    internet marketers” and then I realized the only way we market our event
    is via the web. We haven’t mailed anything other than thank you notes to anyone
    since 2007.

    I can admit when I am wrong. I was wrong about internet
    marketing just like I was wrong about Twitter when it first came along. If you
    are selling any kind of product on 

  • http://twitter.com/rePinClub rePin Club

    Read a real scary article the other day about these programs selling your email and tel to boiler rooms who are professional at bilking not just a few dollars but tens of thousands of dollars out of you. While I’m here lemme leave a link http://www.facebook.com/RePinClub?ref=tn_tnmn maybe I can get a Like out of it. thanx

  • http://twitter.com/JackBewildered Jack Bewildered

    I can’t tell for sure about Danny thinks about the grey-text so maybe what I can do is only guess, which I is making me think that maybe his ideas is it’s more fun for people to go looking about the page for the hidden text like the times when the good SEOs stuffed the invisible-text keywords into all over the page to make a fun counting-game for visitors seeing how many hidden keywords they can find. I think he could make a good and strong case for it, too, because I remember from some some Syndicate-disclosure-words that they tell us they are in the “Entertainment Business” not the “make money” one.

  • http://twitter.com/workforfoodpro willworkforfoodpro

    This article is great for those that have resentment about their previous decisions but it does nothing for the future victims of what you call a scam. Marketing is simply making a product or service available to individuals that think or know they need it. You make money by selling things or giving people a reason to give.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Lanna-Oberammergau/100002374833116 Lanna Oberammergau

    You said you “considered inviting Salty to speak.” Are you denying that Shane Ketterman emailed him asking if he “would be interested or would consider doing a keynote presentation at one of our shows”?

  • http://twitter.com/blogworld BlogWorld CEO

     No I am not denying the email exchange that Salty published on his blog. So?

  • http://www.facebook.com/San.Francisco.SEO Jonah Stein

    As a fan of Salty Droid and an SEO professional who cringes whenever one of my friends describes me as an “SEO Guru” I must say that my initial reaction to the ScamWorld articles was supportive even though I also took offense at the broad brush of calling all internet marketers  scammers.

    To the BlogWorld CEO, I think describing the Droids attempts to use his platform to impune the online reputation of scammers (and the lawyers who sues others on their behalf) as blackmail is telling; if you really want to help solve this problem you should realize that the collective power of Internet/Online/Digital Marketing professionals to influence search results is our first line of defense.

    A few years ago after SMX West in San Jose, I launched a site called WhiteKnightSEO.org with the intention of embarrassing Google for selling Adwords ads to scammers promoting Google Cash.  The coverage of this story, including Danny Sullivan’s coverage on Search Engine Land, managed to dominate the search engine results for the terms “Google Cash” and “Google Money” for a couple months and helped Google decide to stop selling ads on these terms.

    Much to my shame, the site has since remained dormant (although I am happy to revive it if anyone wants to contribute).   While few, if any, of us will have the staying power of a robot, we can all help educate people to the difference AND form a syndicate of our own – one dedicated to helping propel the voices of caution and reason to the top of the search results for the names of anyone who would prey on the hopes and fears of people who are desperate for a piece of the American dream.

    So please, subscribe to the Droid on RSS, read about each of these scammers, watch the videos of them in action and form your own opinions.  If you think his opinions about the these people should be read by people before they spend their hard earned money, then link, share and tweet each new outrage.  If you disagree, then write your own defense or simply remain silent.

  • http://twitter.com/blogworld BlogWorld CEO

     I’m sorry Jonah, I didn’t understand your comment. Telling how?

  • http://www.facebook.com/San.Francisco.SEO Jonah Stein

    Telling in that it shows you are not committed to doing everything possible to solve the problem.  Describing Mr. Jones efforts as blackmail means you are simply trying to discredit him to avoid facing up to the fact that many of your speakers and sponsors are part of the problem.

  • http://twitter.com/blogworld BlogWorld CEO

    Thank you for clarifying Jonah. Could you please tell me which of our “many” speakers and sponsors are scammers? I am not aware of a single one.

    Have you looked at our list of speakers?
    Have you looked at our schedule of educational content?

    You are making a very serious accusation and I would sincerely appreciate it if you backed it up with some form of evidence. This was my original point. Labeling someone as an “internet marketer’ and thereby condemning them as a scammer is ridiculous.

  • http://www.facebook.com/San.Francisco.SEO Jonah Stein

    BlogWorldCEO

    I am not going in the business of naming people scammers and I do not think Internet Marketers are scammers.  In fact, I have been an internet marketer for 16 years, helping companies sell actual products and services.

    The Salty Droid named a few in his response to the speaking overtures and you respond by calling him a blackmailer.   Even though I do not agree with everything the Droid says, I think he is fighting a good fight against a number of people I regard as sociopaths.

    I challenge your organization to put ethics front and center, similar to how the SEM industry has done for over a decade.  People in my industry take issue with Google’s black and white labels and try to help our clients but I do not know anyone who defends unethical exploitation of peoples fears and uncertainty.

  • http://twitter.com/blogworld BlogWorld CEO

    You and I agree Jonah. Scammers are bad.

    But when you say  “many of your speakers and sponsors are
    part of the problem.” I hear you accusing them and us of being unethical
    and possibly doing something illegal.

    I don’t think it is unreasonable for me to ask you to clarify exactly who you
    mean by that. Salty didn’t make that comment you did. Own your own words. Back
    up your accusations or take them back please.

    Do you mean Izea, WordPress, Ford, Southwest Airlines, Overblog, Technorati,
    Federated Media, SEOMoz?

    Who exactly is a sponsor at our show who is part of the problem?
    Who exactly is a speaker at our show who is part of the problem?
    What exactly did they do that was illegal or unethical?

    What specifically did any of them do at our event that broke
    any law or ethical guideline?

    What did we do?

    I can’t defend anyone or any specific charge until you actually make one
    instead of throwing out blanket statements that condemn everyone.

    My business partner David Cynkin and I own this business. We
    spent the last seven years working night and day building it through lots of
    sweat and tears and personal risk. If you can find one person who has attended
    our show and thinks it’s a scam or we are selling any kind of get rich scheme I
    would love to hear it.

    Later on you said “I do not know anyone who defends
    unethical exploitation of peoples fears and uncertainty.”

    Are you accusing me of that too? I certainly haven’t done any such thing nor do
    we do that at our events.

    Let me make the same offer to you that we made to the Verge.
    Please come to our show free of charge. Go to any session you think may be
    suspicious in anyway, talk to all the exhibitors. Please ask as many attendees
    as you like what they think of the event and if they feel like they are being
    taken advantage of. Then report what you see to the world.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/AE3XVAY5DJER75V3XSWL6AN624 Bob

    What a long, self-serving, and dismissive diatribe, Mr. “BlogWorld CEO.”

    In lieu of using your name, do you feel throwing around that title wields magical power, like some “status wand?” Or, are you concerned that by using your regular, unknown name, people might be more inclined to evaluate and question what you actually say? Feel free to answer, “both.”

    Interesting little “franchise” you’ve had going there for the past few years.

    Salty Droid highlighted a significant number of what he asserts are essentially “negative associations” to BlogWorld. You probably should assume that he is NOT remotely alone in that thinking, and that it may come up again in a much more amplified fashion. Perhaps along the lines of say, “60 Minutes” or “Dateline.”

    Feel free to spin that around and let us know what you can come up with. Maybe it will even appear to make more sense than the laborious diatribe you just spewed above.

    You could also dispense with the obvious p.r. and exhibit some guts. Go respond by commenting on the Salty Droid blog, and stand up for what you supposedly believe in. Danny did. Or you could have an email exchange with Salty Droid. Danny did that, too. That’s how having a backbone works.

    Even better: let Danny go ahead and separate himself from the chaff with a more appropriate descriptive title. Then, you can continue catering to your little cadre of “internet marketers.” Unless operating alone in that so-called “specialty” worries you.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/AE3XVAY5DJER75V3XSWL6AN624 Bob

    Mr. BlogWorld CEO said: “You and I agree Jonah.”

    No, Jonah does NOT agree with you, and he made some excellent comments. The manipulative wordplay in your responses doesn’t change that.

    You followed up by cherry picking and selectively throwing out names of conventional corporate businesses in an effort to give yourself credibility. That’s posturing, and people are not the fools you may think they are!

    If you you have a legitimate response, then go over to the Salty Droid blog and respond now at the SOURCE. If you are unwilling to do so, that will speak volumes about your intentions.

    http://saltydroid.info/blogworld-2012-saltydroid-keynote/

  • http://twitter.com/blogworld BlogWorld CEO

     If you clicked on my profile Bob, you would see unlike you I am not anonymous. my name is attached to it. It is Rick Calvert. I am not hiding from or afraid of anyone.  It would be amazing to have 60 minutes cover our event. It would be great for bloggers, podcasters and Web TV producers. You do know CNN, FOX and CBS have already done that right?

    I don’t think you actually know anything about me or our event at all. Please feel free to ask anything you like however I don’t want to hijack Danny’s post.

  • http://www.facebook.com/San.Francisco.SEO Jonah Stein

    Thanks Bob, both for pointing out that Rick (Mr. BlogWorld CEO) was trying to spin my words instead of respond to the basic truth; you either enable scammers or you fight them and outing them online is not blackmail, it is a good deed.

    Rick, for what its worth I think Jason’s response to Shane’s invitation is pretty clear when it comes to naming names.

    What if my speech was The 5 Biggest Scams You’ve Paid 2 See @ BlogWorld? Just glancing at your home page right now I see Paul Colligan and David Risley … both unquestionably scammers … both named on my blog more than once … both supporting the absolute worst of the worst.So I’m going to allow my name to be used to sell tickets to an event where blood suckers are trolling for their prey?Seems quite dubious of me.On the other hand … if there wasn’t to be any censorship of my ideas … then it might be worth it to me anyway. And along with my downer “there’s no easy money online” message … I am full of hope and excitement about the overwhelming power of the Internet to facilitate social change. Blog for the good of the world … not for your own fucking self. That’s my message to wannabe bloggers.Lastly … there would be security concerns about me making a live scheduled appearance. Threats to my life are … let’s just say … quite regular … like Japanese trains.

  • http://twitter.com/blogworld BlogWorld CEO

     I am not spinning your words Jonah. I am also not trying to be hostile. I am trying to get you to realize what you are doing here. You are smearing people with no evidence.

    We are not enabling any scammers. The two people you just mentioned are not scammers. They are professional content creators who are highly respected. If you do a search on Salty’s site you will see there is zero proof of anything they ever did wrong. He just throws out a bunch of names and says “these people are unquestionably scammers”.

    That does not make it true and it is not their responsibility to defend themselves from a baseless accusation. I question his veracity and challenge him to prove it. I challenge you to do some freaking home work and prove it before you start spreading a smear campaign.  If either of you can do that I will be right there with you condemning them.

    Try putting the shoe on the other foot. I heard you Jonah Stein beat your wife. Can you please prove you quit beating your wife? When did you quit beating your wife Jonah?

    That probably doesn’t make any sense to you, which is a shame. Google the people you mentioned and see what kind of results you get. You will find they are very well respected.

    Let’s be clear here I am not defending every person mentioned on Salty’s site. Most of them I have never heard of and they have never spoke at our events.

    However there are at least half a dozen people (maybe more) condemned as scammers on Salty’s site that are widely regarded as the most well liked, respected, and trusted bloggers in the world. I know several of them personally. They speak at our show. They are good honest people. 

    That is why they speak at our show. Yet you believe one bat shit crazy guy who uses keywords to associate their names with nefarious activities over hundreds of thousands of people?

    Over numerous Fortune 500 companies who trust these people and pay them handsomely?

    Over hundreds of trade events all over the world who pay them very well to speak at their events?

    Again I agree with you. Scammers should be exposed and they are the scum of the earth. However numerous people listed on Salty’s site are not scammers. They are good people selling real things and giving good advice.

    Ask yourself who is the person talking crazy here?
    You are the one who started this conversation by making baseless accusations.

    I have been working since I was 16 years old Jonah. Most of the time in sales from retail to b2b I am in my mid forties now. No one has ever called me a scammer. I have people I met and sold things to in my twenties that have become life long personal friends.
    They send me freaking Christmas presents.

    My offer still stands come to the show see for yourself, then tell me if you really believe we are enabling scammers.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/AE3XVAY5DJER75V3XSWL6AN624 Bob

    Mr. BlogWorld CEO: Mind if I just refer to you as “Smug?” If that nickname doesn’t grab you, how about “EgoZilla?” I can suggest a few more options if you’d like.

    You say you “don’t want to hijack Danny’s post?” You already did – massively. Unbelievable! You wrote a long winded, self-serving POST beneath Danny’s own post. How utterly ridiculous!

    Why are you so AFRAID to address this issue at the SOURCE, on the Salty Droid blog, Mr. BlogWorld CEO? Here you go, Smug:

    http://saltydroid.info/blogworld-2012-saltydroid-keynote/

    It would be great to see CNN, FOX, and CBS cover you “again,” but in a critical new light.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/AE3XVAY5DJER75V3XSWL6AN624 Bob

    “We are not enabling any scammers.”

    If you say that 3 times while tapping your ruby slippers together, do you think that makes it true?

    “However there are at least half a dozen people (maybe more) condemned as
    scammers on Salty’s site that are widely regarded as the most well
    liked, respected, and trusted bloggers in the world.”

    Why? Because people like you have helped provide a cloak of pseudo-credibility? And “they” meaning people who positioned themselves as experts prior to actually having had any expertise? “They” only have visibility today because they were early entrants, and/or rode the echo chamber described in the Verge article. Of course, that’s NOT what they sell their “customers” though. They sell their “customers” an entirely different crock, because it’s all about getting into people’s wallets. They know latecomers can’t BUY early entrance and a ringside seat into the cartel-style customer manipulation that enabled them, so they sell their “customers” some other manufactured horseshit. But you know that, don’t you?

    “Yet you believe one bat shit crazy guy…”

    “Bat shit crazy?” You certainly are pompous. You also have an agenda. More and more people are starting to see the bullshit and recognize those who faciliate it. People are in fact more inclined to believe a well-educated, well-reasoned attorney who makes far more sense than you ever could – and that is the Salty Droid. He is genuinely fighting against scammers and his actions show it, as opposed to someone simply saying that for self-serving p.r. purposes.

    Unlike your target sheep, there are people out there willing to do some research of their own. That’s why I believe Salty Droid 100%. You, on the other hand, are only here in a vain effort to defend your little franchise.

    “Ask yourself who is the person talking crazy here?”

    Here’s your definitive answer: It is NOT Jonah, “Mr. BlogWorld CEO.”

  • http://twitter.com/blogworld BlogWorld CEO

     You are an anonymous cowardly troll bob. When you want to have a serious discussion, provide one actual fact to back up your baseless claims I am happy to have a conversation with you.

  • DawnClaremont

    Whoa. Back the truck up, Bob.

    Is a follower of Salty Droid really going to question Rick Calvert’s use of BlogWorldCEO? Last  I noticed, Salty Droid doesn’t sign every one of his comments as Jason Jones. Hypocrite much?

  • DawnClaremont

    Jonah if you’re going to accuse a conference of harboring scammers, be prepared to name names and provide proof of the alleged scam. Otherwise it’s all just specualtion and nonsense. Don’t say “Your conference has scammers but I’m not in the business of naming them.” Put up or shut up.

    Salty Droid may have named scammers but he didn’t say how they scam. Naming someone’s day rate isn’t proof of a scam, it’s only proof that he’s overpriced. If you’re so insistant that BlogWorld CEO has scammers speaking at his conference name them, prove them, or move along.

  • DawnClaremont

    I find it amusing that people who follow the Salty Droid call people from another community”sheep” when they blindly accept everything he says, regardless of whether or not there’s any proof. Prove that BlogWorld is a haven for scammers and you’ll have an argument. Salty Droid hasn’t been able to prove this and you believe him yet you call the people who go to BlogWorld “sheep?”

    The Salty Droid is an anonymous coward and everyone who comments at Salty Droid are anonymous cowards. So why are we supposed to trust his word as Gospel?

    Get a clue Bob.

  • http://twitter.com/mkronline Michael Robinson
  • http://profile.yahoo.com/AE3XVAY5DJER75V3XSWL6AN624 Bob

    HYPOCRISY!

    So Blogworld EGO, exactly how did Salty Droid go from being a desirable KEYNOTE speaker for blogworld, to suddenly being a “batshit crazy guy” in 10 days?

    Blogworld contacted him about doing a keynote, and he then posted that email exchange, indicating that he believed Blogworld was enabling scammers.

    Now, suddenly, he is “batshit crazy guy” and you are claiming, “at least half a dozen” people, as well as “numerous people” on his blog are wrongly accused of being scammers.

    Did he make all of those supposed wrong accusations in the 10 days between his publishing Blogworld’s emails to him, and your subsequent retaliatory comments here? If so, WHO exactly did he accuse that you disagree with? There doesn’t appear to be enough new material published on his blog during that brief window to support that possibility.

    Or, are you referring to the numerous, long-time posts already on his open, public blog at the very same time Blogworld was contacting him about doing a KEYNOTE? If so, that would indicate extreme sloppiness on Blogworld’s part, which could also support Salty Droid’s position about your selectiveness!

    Either way, you do NOT look good here, Blogworld EGO.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/AE3XVAY5DJER75V3XSWL6AN624 Bob

    When did Salty Droid become an “anonymous coward?” Was it BEFORE or AFTER Blogworld initiated the dialog with him about doing a keynote speech?

    If before, what does that say about Blogworld?

    If after, what changed?

    Consider those YOUR clues, shill.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/AE3XVAY5DJER75V3XSWL6AN624 Bob

    Blogworld contacted Salty Droid about giving a keynote speech about scammers.

    Salty Droid published that email exchange, and indicated that Blogworld was part of that problem.

    Suddenly, Blogworld’s CEO retaliates by attacking Salty Droid, citing as supposed “evidence” his previous editorials that motivated them to contact him about doing a keynote in the first place!

    Even someone with zero sense of smell could smell that bullshit!

  • PaulSchlegel

    Can you tell us more about Salty Droid became the anonymous coward after he made everybody know him for real on December 2, 2009:
    http://saltydroid.info/jason-and-the-droid-part-1/ 

    Is it about that he made an identity change to be somebody different than Jason Jones after that, so maybe it’s not his real name anymore?

  • PaulSchlegel

    How is he anonymous? He’s said who he was since December 2, 2009:
    http://saltydroid.info/jason-and-the-droid-part-1/ 

  • WnSomeLsSome

    The thing is, marketing at its heart is devious.  It purposefully uses peoples hopes and fears and dreams to sell something.  

    Marketing is not new.  It has been around for a long time. Awards are given for best advertising and marketing.  Marketing and advertising just has a new medium because we now live in a digital world.  A medium that can be much more pervasive, and harder to tune out for the target. We have an increasingly digital and service based economy.  There are young people who don’t know what a land-line is and use cell phones over computers. Add a disappearance of a wide segment of job opportunities and you have a situation ripe for rip-offs.  Do you think megacorporations do not prey upon peoples hopes and fears and dreams to sell their stuff?  Do you not think they try to create their own fanboy cults? Do you think they have not banded together and formed selling schemes and alliances to sell to the masses and shift money around amongst themselves? How much crap do you have sitting around your house that you never used and was a waste of money? Hmmm?
    So, what I see is that the real issue is where do you draw the line between legitimate marketing with all of its inherent flaws, and predatory psychopathic marketing.  And the sheer audacity of the pricing of a some scam sales.  

    Hate from either side does not define the problem or the people involved any more usefully, or solve the problem. I don’t see the hate that is present on Salty’s site as being beneficial.  In fact it makes his point less believable, which is a shame.  I wish the energy that is put toward hate would be put toward the huge gaping hole that is at the root of the problem…  That is, providing people, who are not sophisticated corporations with money to burn, with products and services, at a reasonable cost, that they can use in good faith to try to dig themselves out of their miserable world.  I don’t think most people looking at these schemes are looking for get rich quick.  I think they are trying to make their lot in life better.  The legitimates are not getting in front of their eyeballs like the predators are.  The predators have the audacity to relentlessly take advantage of that pain. That is the problem.  But labeling everyone who markets as a predator does not solve that problem.